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Post by sophie on May 25, 2016 13:27:25 GMT
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Post by pugchief on May 25, 2016 15:33:07 GMT
The tricky part would be to set the dividend high enough to cover the most basic food & shelter needs, and low enough that it won't discourage people from getting a minimum wage, entry level job. Otherwise, it'll create a permanent underclass of American citizens living solely on the dole, leaving no one willing to work those entry level jobs apart from illegal immigrants. There is already a permanent underclass that is unwilling to work, and the current system already encourages their attitudes toward work vs welfare to persist.
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reub
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by reub on May 25, 2016 15:40:11 GMT
Sophie, socialism in all of it's forms doesn't work! You know better!!
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Post by sophie on May 25, 2016 16:05:31 GMT
Except that a big reason we have the permanent underclass now is that people know they'll lose their welfare benefits if they get a job. That's a real problem that needs to be fixed. Read the 2nd article.
With the dividend, there is never an incentive NOT to work. You just have to make sure it's only high enough to cover basic living expenses, and not high enough to become another disincentive. In Finland, they're talking $10K/year. That's just enough not to starve or be homeless.
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deuxlsteau
New Member
"and everyone would gather / on the 24th of May"
Posts: 42
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Post by deuxlsteau on May 25, 2016 16:34:22 GMT
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reub
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by reub on May 25, 2016 20:09:45 GMT
And then charlatans aka politicians start to promise to raise the dividend based on whoever they think is needy aka will vote for them.
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Post by machineghost on May 25, 2016 21:52:26 GMT
Switzerland is gonna vote on a $2500/month EURO basic income. See the link in the other thread. BTW, alot of those 126 programs CATO identifies are progressive experiments in reducing/eliminating poverty leftover from the "consciousness-expansion" 60's and 70's. We've tried it all by now... money, education, carrot and stick, neighborhood communities, etc. Nothing really works compared to capitalism. And CATO ignores the local cost of living. You can't rank the highest benefits paid in the nation to the rest by ignoring that. Otherwise, everyone would flock to Connecticut or Hawaii. A certain fixed percentage of the population is simply never going to work or is incapable of working. Acting like an ideologue by reducing benefits and/or requiring work is not going to fix the problem, just shift it elsewhere. Better to just accept this fact and move on, especially with the technological unemployment future that we're rushing into.
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deuxlsteau
New Member
"and everyone would gather / on the 24th of May"
Posts: 42
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Post by deuxlsteau on May 26, 2016 18:26:17 GMT
Quick question on the citizen's dividend, and I don't mean this in a xenophobic way. PIcture me as a human cucumber sipping ice water in an air conditioned room as I write this, but:
How long do you have to be a citizen before you can collect? Do newly arrived immigrants get a dividend?
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Post by pugchief on May 26, 2016 18:39:49 GMT
Quick question on the citizen's dividend, and I don't mean this in a xenophobic way. PIcture me as a human cucumber sipping ice water in an air conditioned room as I write this, but: How long do you have to be a citizen before you can collect? Do newly arrived immigrants get a dividend? Haha, of course. Why should they have to contribute anything to the system before receiving benefits?
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Post by sophie on May 27, 2016 16:50:44 GMT
I imagine only U.S. citizens should be eligible for the dividend. Not green card holders, people here on visas etc. It takes several years for even legal immigrants to get citizenship, so presumably they'll be paying into the system for a few years before they get to start collecting.
Of course, their kids born on US soil will get the dividend right away. But that's a topic for another thread :-)
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